I love that you want to make the Tesla a fully autonomous vehicle. Being in my mid 50’s I’ve seen what happens to our parents when they can, or no longer should drive, but hold on much longer than they should, to their cars and their licenses.
I also live in Arizona near one of the largest Senior Communities in the State. The accidents aren’t pretty and happen far to often, many times with devastating results.
This is the probably one of the best reasons I see for advancing the autonomous vehicle. For people who for whatever reason can no longer or never were able to drive (blindness).
But I hear you talk about how I’m going to send my car out to work when I’m not using it. I have also heard you talk about how those who drive for a living are going to lose their jobs to autonomy. That might be true. But, I can tell you have probably never driven a taxi or given an Uber ride. If you had, you’d know how crazy it sounds. I have a hard enough time parking in a public lot, where scratches and dents are a fairly normal occurrence, and no one claims responsibility. Once in a while something like this happens:
And I’m not talking about that she has passed out and isn’t getting out of the car without calling the police.
In the old days when Taxi Drivers and Owners could make a living, GM and Ford made Taxicab versions of their cars. While many of the options will not be needed by an Electric car, like bigger brakes and larger cooling systems to sit long periods in heavy traffic, I can think of a few that will be very necessary.
The biggest need, very heave duty upholstery, where when someone vomits or leaves any other bodily fluid it is easily cleaned. No leather, no carpet, something you can easily hose out. And without a driver, how will we know when the car needs a good cleaning before it gets to the next passenger? Who enforces the no smoking rule?
I also am guessing that you aren’t accounting for the passenger that opens the door into traffic. So far only the back doors on the X are vertical opening. On the cheaper S and 3, having a door get hit without a system to prevent it, like a human, I see it happening far more often and it does happen more often than you might think. And those doors and seats are going to have a lot of cycles on them. Something very few passenger cars are built to handle. It’s not uncommon for hinges to crack like a kid flexing an aluminum can till it cracks.
Then you have passengers that want to get in or out right in front of their origin/destination. Can your car do that, yet? Stop in a lane of traffic and open the doors?
You say that you can set your car so only family, friends or 5 star passengers can use it. Whose going to give the passenger the stars, HAL? Can it smell body odor? Remember the Seinfeld episode with the valet?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-pEhqiCD27E%22
If the car gets hit who’s going to call the police and fill out the police report?
Whose going to help put luggage or groceries in the trunk?
There is one other thing I hear you talk about. That the cost of a car (I assume you mean cost per mile) is going to be so cheap that it won’t make sense to ride the bus.
I’m not sure how you figure that but lets give it a try. Right now in Phoenix Uber pays 70 cents a mile and 7 cents per minute. Now we all know the car is only being paid with a passenger in it. If you are lucky that half the time and half of the miles driven. In the end the driver gets 35 cents a mile and 3 cents per minute. Actually less because Uber gets 20-25%. How much are you going to keep?
If a car drives an average of 30mph and is driving with a fair half the time thats $2 in time and $10.50 per hour. Or a total of $12.50 per hour. Then Uber gets there piece, $3.13 or $9.37 an hour. That equates to 31 cents per mile.
Right now based on that number Uber drivers are working pretty much for free as there are almost no cars out there that cost less than 31 cents per mile when you add up all the costs to operate.
If a Model 3 costs $50k and you can get 500k miles out of it depreciation alone is 13 cents per mile. Add about 6 cents per mile in electricity and we have 19 cents a mile so far. Thats about 5 years of driving in a cab in a major city and most new cabs barely last 4 years but were going to give your car every opportunity.
That will probably take 10 sets of tires or $7k, 7 sets of brakes at $300 or $2100 and 5 years of insurance at $3k or $15k. Lets add $2k a year for incidentals which is also probably low. About another $5k a year. So total $25k more divided by 500k is another 5 cent per mile.
So we are now at .25 cents per mile. If we look at the cost of an Uber with a driver there is 6 cents per mile profit.
If your car can meet my assumptions that’s a $6k a year return on a $50k investment or 12%. That’s pretty good and even better if you can double your paid miles.
But, odds are better that you’ll only get 300k miles out of the car, not 500k. If that happens the returns are negative.
And there is one other catch. And we can thank Uber for this one. There is no longer a barrier to entry. Anybody can put on one car or one hundred cars. The reason Uber fares are so cheap is because there are more Uber drivers than cockroaches. Uber drivers don’t do the math so they work for next to nothing. I’m not sure a person would let another person they don’t know in their cars unsupervised. Although it pretty obvious they will give people rides for close to free. If I lived in New York, San Francisco or San Diego I’m not that sure I would even own a car anymore.
I spent a week in DC last month and had a rental for just one day. Between Uber and Public Transportation we spent less than $100 for the week. Who needs a car.
I will buy a Tesla that is fully autonomous when that price hits $50k or less but I’m sure as hell not letting anybody but family ride in it.
The only way I’d buy more than one and operate it like a taxicab is if it made financial sense. The only way to do that is limit the number of cars out there. But, I think that cat is already had it’s nine lives.
One last problem with self driving cars and ride sharing. Ride sharing only works because people see giving rides as a way to get others to pay for their car. The fewer people with cars the fewer people willing to share for cheap. Does that solve the problem of getting more per mile? Maybe.
I’ve been writing a lot about Tesla lately. It’s not just because I drove one. I’m trying to find a reason to buy one. The cheapest new Tesla S you can build is $76k before sales taxes or tax incentives. So that’s still about $76k all said and done.
Now add the options on my list, Premium Upgrade, Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self Driving adds another $12k. And what’s a luxury car without leather and a sunroof. Add another $6k to the price tag. All in for $88k or lease for $1200 a month for a 1000 mile a month limit. That’s a $1.20 a mile before insurance, washes, electricity, tires. And don’t forget repairs or parking lot dings. Maybe Tesla needs to invent a force field so you don’t stress at the grocery store.
You could take an Uber everywhere for less. And Uber includes a driver. Actually Uber is so cheap in most places that I’m not sure there is a reason to own a car anymore. Once you add up all your expenses to operate a car I seriously doubt Uber drivers are making the minimum wage for servers let alone $10 an hour.
Speaking of Uber. If you have never used Uber. Use the code Z4JRI for $20 off your first ride.
If you are like me and have never used Lyft. Use the code DOGFOOD and get up to $20 off your first ride.
I have to confess. Just like most people logic is the last thing I think of when I test drive or shop for a car. We buy cars using our emotion. If not we would all be driving the modern equivalent of the Amish horse and buggy. So let me tell you about my emotional experience at the Tesla Store. Notice I didn’t say dealer.
If you are like most people you hate going to the car dealer to buy a car. Buying a car is more like the death of a thousand cuts. The sales person, the sales manager, the back and forth and psychological games they play. And just when you think it’s over the guy doing the paperwork is another gauntlet of horrors before you can get out the door. And like Richard Gere in First Knight, no matter how hard you train or prepare you might feel like you won in that final moment but in the end you lost. The dealer always wins.
Unlike the car dealer the Tesla Store is completely different. Like the Apple Store it is best to make an appointment online to be sure they have a “co-pilot” who can take you out for a drive. They don’t have tens of people sitting around waiting to make a commission like a car dealership.
The day prior to your scheduled appointment a person will call and ask you if you have any questions they can answer or if you have a trade in. I’m not sure how the trade would work as I didn’t have one nor did I plan on walking out with a new car on my test drive. If you have done that please leave a comment below on how that worked.
Probably, like most Tesla buyers I already know quite a bit about the car and the company. Did I say they aren’t trying to sell you a car. Just kidding. They are just doing it in a subtle non threatening way. His/her real job is to ask you questions, so when you get in the store they are’t wasting time playing the get to know you bonding game.
What I didn’t know is that most Tesla buyers have never spent more than $40k on a car before. Most people aren’t buying this car for status or to show the neighbors how rich they are or want you to think they are. Many just want a Tesla. It’s just that cool, technology wise. It’s not plush or refined by any stretch. It’s more IKEA than Ethan Allen. It’s the symbolic equal of getting a tattoo for many. They don’t care what you think. They just have to have it. Although I doubt there are college students going without Mac n Cheese so they can afford one.
On to the Test Drive.
I grab my lab rat, sorry. My 13 year old, 6 foot 2 inch son. We jump in my plebeian Mazda 6. Not really. It’s a really nice $24k car with plenty of neat safety options, just not the really cool ones Tesla has, and drive the 15 minutes to the really nice Tesla Showroom/Delivery/Service Center in Tempe, A.Z.
We find a place to park, not an easy task, with very few open tiny spaces (by design) and go inside. We are greeted by a young man (definitely not your average car salesman) who checks us in and tells us our co-pilot is getting our car ready.
Out walks Emily. Also not your average car sales person. She could just as easily have been a lawyer or a barista at Starbucks or young dudes sister. She was far to good looking to be his girlfriend. She introduces herself and we proceed outside to our ride de jour.
Less than 4 days later as I write this I can’t tell you what color the car was or what color interior it had. Only that the headliner was drab and it had no grab handles over the doors. The red P90D in the showroom was far more memorable.
As we approach the car and she opens the driver door and says “hey you, get in to my car”. And I say, “who me”? Just kidding Billy Ocean fans. She does open the door and ask me to get into the car and set the seat and mirrors.
Being it’s in a narrow space and I’m not a tiny guy I ask her if we can see it drive itself out of the space. Summon Mode. With a touch of the cute car shaped key fob it pulls itself out of the space. There is also an app for that.
We all pile into the car. Emily on the passenger side front seat and my son in back in the seat behind me. If a taller than 6 footer can sit comfortably behind another 6 footer then the leg room is adequate or better. Also the back seat headroom of most cars is not designed for people over 6 feet tall. They just figure the kids are going in back. Before I forget. The car turns itself on as you approach. It even extends to hidden door handles for you.
Now to be fair I have already driven a Tesla S P90D before. It belongs to a friend. But, I only did the usual 0 – 60 crazy type driving in an industrial area on a weekend where it was deserted. We didn’t drive on the highway or in city traffic. That’s what this test drive was all about. Using the autopilot function in traffic on the highway and in the city.
So out we go from the parking lot and down the 2 blocks to get on to the expressway. It’s about 1PM on a weekday. A good amount of traffic but not rush hour. Maybe we were cruising along at 55 – 65. On goes the autopilot. The car does a really good job of holding the center lane and keeping a safe distance from the car ahead of you.
It’s blind spot monitoring is a bit odd if you are used to most other cars. It does not have an indicator on the side mirrors or give you an audible warning if you put on your turn signal.
The small OLED screen in front of you has a little sonar type indication if there is a car next to you. You can also see cars sneaking up on you on the big center display with the rear camera on.
If you put on the turn signal with autopilot and there is a car in the blind spot, or to your side it will not go. But if the area doesn’t clear in a set amount of time it will just cancel the lane change. It won’t change lanes when it’s clear. It requires that you pay attention and don’t put the lane change indicator on till you have determined that the area is clear. Then it will make the change for you. It also requires that once you change lanes you turn off the blinker. It will also only change one lane per indication. If you need to cross three lanes of traffic to exit an expressway it won’t do that in one blinker command. Still it is by far the best adaptive cruise control that I have ever used. No hands and no feet required. Well, actually you do get asked to place your hands on the wheel every so often. Probably to make sure you’re not sleeping.
Next off the expressway and into city traffic. Here the lane holding ability is not that great. It needs a supply of unending lane lines to know where it is. Curbs on the right or left and it can’t stay centered. Another place even if you are in a center lane where you have lines on either side is crossing an intersection. No lines on either side there. In these places you will need to steer the car yourself. But it does go from zero to the speed limit and back again very well. And if you you have a car in front of you it will play follow the leader for speed and distance. Including coming to a full stop and starting back up when the car in front starts moving.
If you are the first car at an intersection it won’t stop for a red light or go on a green light. Maybe one day but not yet. I wonder if when that happens it will know to move out of the way of an emergency vehicle? Elon?
This is where I noticed that the car didn’t have grab handles over the doors. Really Elon. That’s as bad as having left out the reading lights in earlier versions. Maybe in the next version instead of worrying about bioweapon level air handling or fancy doors you can add them. Cup holders? It now has cupholders. Weird ones. It might require some sit time in one trying to see if I like them or not.
Now it’s time to get back on the highway. We need a entrance ramp to test out that Tesla acceleration. We did use the software hack to dumb the acceleration rate down from the P90D to that of the base Model 75, as I said earlier I have already done the 0 to 60 in 3 seconds thing. It’s not required by a normal, sane person who uses logic to buy a car. To spend an extra $10-15k for something you will barely ever use or piss most everyone else off on the road when you do. The Spock in me says no. Even though Kirk always got the women. Actually most women aren’t turned on by guys in cool cars. Men are. Just ask Doug Demuro.
I can say that 0 to 65 in the Base Model 75 is plenty of speed getting on the expressway or having to pass most any common car.
The Tesla also drives very nicely. It handles as well or better than my Mazda 6 or a BMW and drives nothing like my Prius V. The Prius V has about as much soul a a washing machine. The Tesla is quiet. You can have a conversation and never have to raise your voice. I have no doubt the Tesla will save the lives of many pedestrians from their texting, talking, twittering, web surfing drivers. It might also save the lives of Tesla drivers from texting, talking, twittering, web surfing drivers that aren’t driving a Tesla.
It’s now time to exit the expressway and back to the showroom. The transition for autopilot to human and back is pretty unobtrusive. My son has enjoyed the half hour or so ride in the back seat spending part of his time texting, taking pictures and filming some of the drive.
We enter the parking lot where the spaces are tight and the lanes are narrow. And earlier I did say this is by design. It’s to show off another Tesla technology. Self parking. You pull just past the space where you want to park, very close to the side of the car. You put the car in reverse and tap the touch screen and the car will park itself. Magic. Only one problem. Again my fat ass doesn’t want to shimmy out the door between two parked cars. Easily solved. Pull forward and get out. Rub the key fob in just the right way and presto change-o, the car parks itself. Walk away and it shuts itself off and locks the doors. Did I say there is an app for that? It will even pre-heat or pre-cool the car before you get there.
Back inside Emily asks if I were to buy the car today what would i like in my perfect Tesla? We then go to the computer and see if there is anything currently in stock. And just like any other car dealer she is more than helpful showing me what they have and should I plan on buying, today would be a good day. Or if not today before the end of the month as there are certain specials and incentives ending shortly.
The big difference is they don’t hold you or your keys hostage. And I don’t think they offered me a bottle of water 20 different times. And she offered to email me if a car like the one that I really want happens to be built or shows up in the system for sale. I doubt it will as most of the demo cars they build are near the upper end of the price scale. They are also the ones with the bigger incentives off list price.
Also I wonder if paying $100k for a car that spartan compared to a Porsche Panamera E-hybrid, within a few thousand dollars is a better emotional decision. The Porsche is like having First Class seats in the cockpit of a Boeing 757 with the performance to match. The Tesla is like sitting in the cockpit of a Airbus 320. Including all the auto safety features and whiz bang electronics. Did I mention I fly an Airbus for a living?
After driving the Tesla we proceeded directly to the Chevrolet Dealer to look at a Bolt. To read that review Click Here.
I would definitely wait for a Tesla 3 before I bought a Bolt
And after that we went over to the Porsche dealer to look at a Panamera. That review has yet to be written.
My son, like most people who bought an EV this year are squarely in the Tesla camp. So far this year, the Tesla S has outsold the Panamera E almost 1000 to 1. Maybe that is why Porsche and almost every other luxury car maker is coming out with an electric car.
I am now going to list the pros of buying a Tesla.
Cutting edge technology that is updated often by incremental software advances without having to buy the newest model.
Contemporary styling.
Kids dig them. They aren’t hung up on horsepower and the growl of a gasoline engine. They don’t like the smell of napalm in the morning or fuel in the cabin.
Cons:
Cost. There are a lot of other things you can do with $1200 dollars a month for 3 years or more. Get 15 one hour massages a month. Buy a timeshare in Hawaii and spend a week a month there.
You could also buy a LG OLED Big Screen TV and watch a lot of youporn for just 3 months payments.
Now that will let me add one more pro I did not think of before. The Tesla comes standard with 3G LTE and that huge touchscreen in the center. You could watch youporn while letting the car drive you around during your commute everyday. Yes, it will allow the driver full access to anything while it’s driving.
So the next time you see a Red Tesla S driving in the HOV lane on I-10 in Phoenix with limo tint, now you know what the driver is doing inside. No wonder why the Tesla is such a popular car. We all know the internet was invented so people could get free porn. Now we know why the Tesla was invented. So we could watch porn on a big screen while driving to work. I finally found the only reason you can use to really justify spending six figures on a car. Porn.
The following are my opinions. If you own a Volt feel free to comment on what you like about the Volt and why.
I should have really posted a review of my 2015 Prius V before I wrote this one because I am basing this review on my likes and dislikes of that car. But here goes anyway.
I went to the Chevy dealer with the intention of looking at the new 2017 Chevy Volt. I have read many reviews and watched a lot of YouTube video on why people love the Volt. The reason you might not find many people who don’t like it online is because the people are either owners of the car or people who can’t not like it because they have money and ego on the line, or, people who count on dealers and manufactures to give them access to the car and need more cars for future reviews.
When I got to the dealership I turned in the first entrance. It turned out that was the service entrance. Instead of driving around I parked there and walked around to where an open Volt was sitting. After just sitting in it I had no desire to drive it. Why?
I guess I will start out with what I like since that’s a pretty short list. It gets about 50 miles of electric driving on a full charge. More than most people will need in a day. I actually like the way it looks. It make a very small car look very big. OK, not very big but far bigger that it actually is inside. It does have some very cool tech in it. Neat gauges and many advanced safety features if you choose the high end model. That’s the good. Now the reasons I chose not to drive it.
It has interior dimensions that are very close to a Honda Fit or Toyota Prius C. Both of which can hold more cargo. The second row headroom is almost 2 inches less than the Honda and the second row legroom is 4.6 inches less than the Honda. Yet, the car is 20 inches longer that the Honda. So it has more cargo space, right? No, it has 6 CUft less. Fold the back seats down in both and that difference is, not even listed for the Volt.
I am 6 feet tall. Not to tall to fit in the drivers seat. But if I can’t uncomfortably fit in the back seat of a car behind myself. It has little use to me. I might as well be buying a two seat car.
When I scrunched myself into the backseat by contorting to get through the door and turning my feet (size 13 shoes) sideways and then turning them forward I made the mistake of rising my head. I hid the headliner. I didn’t immediately lean my head backward so it was where the window comes up over my head. To sit n the most comfortable position possible I have to lean my head back.
Now I would probably never have to ride in the backseat but my 12 year old son would. He’s already 5′ 8″ and has a size 11 foot.
Could you use one if you have a baby? Um, maybe not. My wife drives our granddaughter around a lot. She has this massive baby seat that barely fits in a midsize car let alone a car with a back seat as small as a Volt.
When you watch all the youtube reviews I have no idea how small these guys have to be to sit in the back seat.
I hope the Chevrolet Bolt is way better than the Volt. Maybe they stole the design from the Honda Fit for the Bolt. I sure hope so.
Will lower gas prices have a large effect on EV sales?
To a certain extent but there is a way that car makers could diminish the cheap gas advantage.
The Tesla has never been a car whose sales have been driven by high fuel prices. It’s appeal has been in performance and technology as well as status and muted luxury.
Anybody who has driven an EV loves the real world acceleration. By real world I mean 0-30. The burst of energy to change lanes or get on the freeway.
The average car takes much longer from a full stop to 30 MPH than an EV. From 30-60 it’s about the same time but the gasoline car spend from 30-60 catching up.
0-60 in 4 seconds is nice but in an ICE car that requires tens of thousands of dollars and an average MPG of around 12 MPG everyday to do that the very fews times you need that power. You just don’t need or can’t really enjoy your 700HP vehicle as much as you would like to.
Your 2 seat loud and obnoxious sports cars are the proverbial 12 inch penis. Impressive looking but not to many places that can handle all of it.
The only place cars like those have any use other than getting you a superficial mate are on the track. And they are actually more likely to get you tickets than they are a mate if you are not that good looking anyway that you need to buy the car to have women look at you.
Add to that most people with cars like that never take them to a track like many Jeep or 4×4 owners never take them off road and you have probably explained why most Americans think they are broke and don’t like to pay taxes.
Car makers have to stop only building tiny compact EV’s as well. While they might get the job done they aren’t impressive at all, don’t tell me that size doesn’t matter. Small might be able to fit in any parking spot but only the city dweller sees that as an advantage. We don’t live in Europe.
Most Americans don’t fit in a Smart EV or Fiat EV. We are large people. Many of us are over 6 feet tall and many are over 200 pounds. Or both. We need cars we fit in.
In order to get more people into the cars they need to be real world cars. The e-Golf and Mercedes B-Class are a nice start but they are still too expensive for only having 80 miles of range.
The new cars being announced with 200 mile ranges will start selling if you really build enough and sell them outside of the few CARB States.
They will outsell the Chevy Volt which still isn’t a 5 passenger car. The rear leg room is still to small. And the battery down the middle is just as bad as the Ford and their batteries across the truck or cargo bay. They will not find many new buyers. They will just keep many of the buyers they have. Unless they change to a flat battery pack under the floor.
The greatest thing about owning an EV, or even a Hybrid, is rarely or ever having to stop to buy gas. Even if the price of gas is $1 per gallon. The approximate equilibrium price of gas to electricity as fuel for cars.
It really is nice to come home at night and just plug in your car instead of having to wait in line and pump gas.
The worst part now about driving any car is filling up the gas tank. It’s rare that I ever get the gas station to myself. Then after waiting in line for 5-10 minutes, I have to get out, swipe my card and spend 5 minutes looking at the guy next to me that cut in front or committed some breach of gas station etiquette.
With an EV you just pull into the garage, plug in and walk into the house and go about your normal business. You wouldn’t even think of buying a phone where you had to go to the store and buy new batteries every few days. Then through the dead batteries on the street like the emissions form your tail pipe.
With the advent of the 100 mile plus battery, which is enough for most peoples daily commute, that will be shortly followed by the 200 mile battery, the plug it in at night car that can work for 100% of your daily driving needs will be all you really need.
Add to that, no more oil changes, tune ups and all those other regular maintenance items that an internal combustion engine car has and you will be hooked.
That doesn’t even included all the environmental benefits.
A 200 mile range, 5 seats and a price tag of $30k in a sporty car like a VW Golf or Kia Soul might just be what it takes to get this evolution in transportation to catch on.
It will be interesting to see how Tesla responds to these challengers that are now taking the 200 mile advantage away from Tesla.
I don’t think it will be long before my 12 year old son looks at driving a gasoline powered vehicle like he does someone smoking a cigarette. We know smoking is hazardous to your health and does cause cancer. The same thing is true of ICE vehicles.
We are just not willing to admit it yet as we love our cars.
The automakers are just starting to give us EV’s we can love.
Thanks Elon. You’re the guy who got this party started. Hopefully you keep leading the way and not letting the Big 3 kill the EV like G.M. did in the past.
I don’t think the big automakers are going to rest unless you stumble and fall.
I don’t think Apple and Google will really be a threat to the Big 3 like Tesla. For some reason you’ve got them really scared even though you only build less than 10’000 cars a month.
I might just have to buy Tesla stock now that it back down to the Moon instead of Mars, a place you want to go. Once the price comes back down to Earth people wont think your shooting for the stars.
There is a big promise by car makers being told, or should I say, sold.What is it? That the next generation or EV cars will get 200 miles or more of range and be sold for about $35k.
That only solves half the problem.
What good is a 200 mile battery when your useful range is really only 80 miles?
Why do I say only 80 miles? Because if you don’t have a place to charge where you are going then you have to turn around when you hit half you range.
But isn’t 100 miles half your range? No, not really. You can never count on 100% of your battery potential. There are several things that can change that. Going up hill, going over 65, and don’t forget what temperature extremes can do to range. Then you have things like detours, construction delays and traffic.
Another problem that is brought up all the time is, how will people who live in cities or apartments who don’t have access to Level2 Charging be able to own EV’s. This is one reason GM and others aren’t looking past hybrids.
This is where Tesla has started to solve that problem. The Supercharger network. They have put chargers where people can go 200 miles or so and stop for 20-30 minutes and then keep going. Not going back home. These chargers are spaced across the Country so people can actually drive coast to coast or border to border. Not just to work and back.
They also have what they call destination chargers. They give chargers to hotels and some businesses where people might spend the night or stop for a while. Level2 Chargers but still, people will bring there Tesla’s there before they use other like businesses. Nothing like having people who can spend 100k plus on a car wanting to spend money at your business.
If the other cars companies aren’t willing to put in DC Charging in strategic locations, that 200 mile battery will still pretty much be an around town errand car, and not the once in a while drive to grandma’s or Disney Land for vacation.
I can do most of my daily driving and just recharge on 110v power. If I used my 75 mile range every day before i got home I would have to use Level2 charging to refill to capacity by the next day. Double the capacity of my battery and Level2 would be the minimum needed, not the exception.
Get enough 200 mile range cars out there and actual commercial charging stations could become financially viable. More so than hydrogen. Hydrogen stations are expensive. Yes, you might be able to fill up in 10 minutes or less but is that really what businesses want. There is a reason that Walgreens says it’s going to be at least 20 minutes to fill your prescription, even if all they have to do is grab a bottle and print a label. The longer you have to wait the more likely you are to buy something you don’t really need. Marginal Revenue.
QuickTrip and CircleK want to sell you food and Big Gulps. Candy, pizza and cigarettes. They probably make as much on a Hot Dog as a tank of gas.
Get enough EV’s out there with QC capability and that 20 minutes to fill up might just be perfect for Costco, Target or Whole Foods to colocate with Charging stations. Think of all the places people spend 20 minutes a day or two a week.
Those truck/rest stop restaurants might not be as filthy if more people actually spent 20 minutes filling up while they get a burger or a slice while on a cross country trip.
Instead of Electric Companies worrying about losing all their business to solar panels maybe they should start thinking ahead and getting the wiring in place for a few DC Charge stations. That way when the scales get tipped they are the new oil companies. Out with the old and in with the really old. Edison and GE predate Standard Oil.
I find it odd that electric companies will provide incentives to buy LED light bulbs and Energy Star fridges and AC units yet they have problems with people putting up solar panels. They preach conservation yet when it comes to the ultimate conservation they cry foul.
If you want people to buy more electricity then imagine a kilowatt sold per 4 miles driven. Do you know how much Americans drive? That’s about 10kW a day. Based on a 40 mile average. About 2600 kW a year. or about $364 a year at 14 cents per kWh. Multiply that $354 by 200 million and imagine how much that would add to the bottom line of the Electric Companies.
And most people consume that power during the day but fill up at night. Win, win. Add 200 mile batteries to the mix and all those solar panels will provide the peak demand the cars who can’t fill up at night need.
If I were the CEO of an Electric Company I’d be getting solar panels on peoples roofs now and building out the infrastructure to get ready to charge all those cars.
You might even want to give as much of an incentive to buy an electric car as you do to upgrade to a higher SEER AC unit.
You can help start the next great change in technology. Look at what Cellphone companies did to land lines. Look at how the internet is hitting TV and Newspapers.
You can be on the forefront by providing the infrastructure and shifting income from Oil Companies to Electric Companies. I’m still surprised you guys haven’t cashed in on internet services. You do have a wire going in to almost every house.
Why sell power to the refineries when you can cut out the middle man.
I was asked why I think a Tesla would be the EV to buy?
As many of you who have read my blog know I have a Ford Focus EV. I bought the Ford because it was the best overall EV for the price.
Yet it has it’s drawbacks. There isn’t a single Ford with a battery in it that was designed to have a battery in it. If you want either the Focus Electric or one of their PHEV’s, the battery takes up cargo space. In the Focus it takes up a lot of cargo space.
Ford Focus EV Cargo
The car also has a much wider turning radius than the ICE model Focus. You can’t make a u-turn on a normal two lane city street. You have to make a 3 point turn. Other than that it’s pretty much identical to the gas powered Focus with the SEL Trim Package. It has a real world range of about 75 miles.
Then you have the Mercedes B-Class EV. It’s a really nice looking car. Lots of room behind the back seats and the back seats fold down flat to create even more cargo space if needed. There is no battery in the way.
Mercedes B-Class EV Cargo Bay with Seats Flat.
This is a really a nice luxury EV that is not far off that $35k mark after the tax breaks. It has a pretty good real world range of about 85 miles. They actually designed the B-Class with using a battery for an energy source to begin with. Like the Tesla, the batteries lay flat under the cabin.
But then they go and screw things up by taking what is a really nice radar cruise control system and change the function of it. A radar cruise control should keep your distance from the car in front of you and com to a complete stop if the car in front of you does. Instead if you start closing on the car in front to fast it applies the regenerative brakes so you don’t waste opportunity to recharge the battery by slowing down to quickly. That sounds like a great idea, right? Where they go wrong is now it won’t stop the car anymore if you are going to hit the car in front of you. I don’t know about you but I would much rather have a safer car than get that extra 2 or 3 miles from the regenerative brake system during a full charge.
There are also a few more compromises because while they did design this car with the batteries out of the way, they also designed it so they could use any of their powertrains. In Europe it is sold with both gas and diesel engines and they might also develop a fuel cell version.
The V.W. eGolf suffers from the same issues. While it accommodates the batteries without intrusion it doesn’t really have all the computer software and indicators that you want to see in a pure electric car.
This is where the Kia Soul EV actually has done a lot better job. But, yes their is a but. They take out the power seats. The top trim level has manual seats and very few of the new safety features available on most car today.
What all the companies out there have in common is that they compromise they EV’s to allow for different powertrains be they hybrid, Gas or Diesel. They are not betting the farm so to speak or going all in on Electric. Tesla is.
There is one automaker that has bet a lot on the EV, Nissan. Yet they have also made compromises. Unlike Tesla they decided that they would try to design an affordable EV from day one. It was really anything but affordable in the beginning and didn’t really get much traction until they offered the car at a sub $200 a month lease rate. Something that is starting to hurt them now as many people reach the end of their leases.
Nissan also suffers from the car being pretty ugly, fairly modest if not downright utilitarian as well as having bumps in the cargo bay.
Just like when the Prius started out you really had to want to be an early adopter. I do find it interesting that now that the Prius has been on the market now for 15 years and within the last 3-5 years all of a sudden all the other car makers are coming out with some version of a hybrid car. And a handful after the slight and I say slight success of the Chevy Volt are now experimenting with Plugin In Hybrid cars. Most of the EV’s out there today are still nothing but compliance cars. Cars that allow them to keep making Internal Combustion Engine (I.C.E.) cars.
On the other hand you have Tesla. They first proved the concept with the Tesla Roadster. They proved a car could go 200 miles on a single charge and be fun to drive.
Their next car was the Tesla S. A car that was designed from a clean sheet of paper. No hedging their bets by having an ICE version. While it’s not a car for the mass market it is arguably one of the most successful cars in it’s price range. It’s also a car that is in the top safety, speed and has the most satisfied buyers of any car out there.
After the S we now have the X, the next car in the evolution. Also a very expensive car. Yet it does more than any other car in it’s class. I’m not sure there is any other car in it’s class.
But here are the reasons I really think Tesla is going to be the first to the really affordable car that everybody will want to buy.
They are now hard at work building the Tesla 3. A car that may have a 200 mile range. Seat 4-5. Actually carry some cargo much like the Mercedes B-Class or VW eGolf.
It will hands down have the least compromises with the greatest utility and look good doing it.
They will also have access to the Tesla Supercharger network. This is no small amenity. Even if GM or BMW builds a 200 mile car those batteries aren’t going to charge overnight in the average persons garage. Today an average pure EV battery is in the 24kWh range. With a 220 charger that takes about 5-8 hours. With a 110 it takes 15-20 hours.
Now double or triple the size of the battery and you need to double or triple the time it takes to charge. The only company that has the infrastructure in place to take advantage of a battery that size is Tesla. The only company that will allow you to take that car cross country is Tesla.
And while the eGolf or the B-Class Mercedes have enough range and luxury for most people and will also sell in that 35k price range they probably won’t be as desirable.
Many of you may have noticed I haven’t mentioned the BMW i3 yet. BMW did design the i3 from the ground up with the EV powertrain from day one. Yet they still have hedged their bet by offering a gas engine to extend the range. It’s either a work of art or really ugly. It’s really small and is really a two door car. And like every other BMW there is a big jump in price from the base model to the one that has all they toys you really want. For about the same price I would rather own the Mercedes B Class.
I don’t want a car that screams look at me. If I did I’d buy a Mustang or Corvette.
I don’t want a hybrid. They no longer get you in the HOV lane and are more utilitarian to drive than fun. Yeah, they get 40-50 MPG but the Mazda 6 gets 40 MPG on the highway and doesn’t suffer from being boring. Actually if you drive a lot on the highway hybrids might do worse than a Mazda 6. I know my Prius V does worse on highway trips. And around the city that extra 12 mpg isn’t really worth $10k more for the car.
I don’t want a plug in hybrid because the whole reason for an electric car is to eliminate waste and pollution. I don’t want a muffler, pistons and a fuel tank. I like never having to go to a gas station unless I have to stop and pee or need a 64 ounce drink.
And I really don’t want a Chevy Bolt. Smart Car or iMev. These cars are jokes. They aren’t even cute. To me they scream Bill Nye the science guy or Ed Begley Jr. They might be nice guys and I applaud their efforts to reduce pollution but, these are not two guys who inspire confidence or success.
There are a couple other things that make me think Tesla might just have what it takes to compete long term.
The evolution of Tesla is very much like the evolution of the Cell Phone. The supercharger network is very much like the evolution of the cell phone network by design. And the Tesla philosophy is very much like that of Apple and the iPhone.
I think every other car maker is going to be like all the other manufacturers who make Android Phones. Except they won’t have a cohesive infrastructure to support them. If they are going to rely on others to set up their charging networks they will fail. The average EV user, rarely if ever, charges anywhere but home or work and mostly at home.
That’s because the average driver rarely ever drives more than 50 miles a day. Only once in a while do they ever take that road trip everybody talks about that you need a 200-300 mile range.
And most smart people either fly or rent a car when going really long distances. If you breakdown in a rental you call the company and get a new car.
Rental companies make their money on people who rent cars locally. The people they know are only going to drive less than 50 miles in a day. You know, like the person who should really be driving an electric car. The person like you or me.
For me and many others the answer is no. For some absolutely. But very few. If you need DC Quick Charging you should think twice about buying electric.
There are several different rates of charge out there for EV cars and Plug-in Hybrids.
This is the rate at which when plugged in the battery will replenish it’s charge or refuel so to speak.
If you own a gas burning car you probably never thought about this. You pull up to a pump and in 5-10 minutes you are on your way with a full tank of gas. If you have a 10 gallon gas tank like my Prius it might take longer to swipe your credit card and get approval before the pump turns on.
If you drive an SUV with a 30 gallon tank It may take 3-5 minutes. The maximum rate at which fuel may be dispensed in the USA is 10 gallons per minute. Costco claims that they change their fuel filters when the flow rate falls below 8 gallons per minute.
So now let’s transfer some of this knowledge to EV’s. A pure BEV (battery electric vehicle) has a 24 kWh (kilowatt hour) battery or that’s how big it’s “fuel” tank is. The fuel being electricity.
Most BEV’s today with the exception of the Tesla and Toyota RAV4 EV have batteries that size or smaller.
The capacity of the chargers in BEV’s and Plug In Hybrid EV’s start at 3.3 kilowatts, which is the norm for 2011 and 2012 Nissan Leafs, later base-model Leafs, and all 2011 thru 2015 Chevy Volts.
Later model year Leafs above the base model increased that rate to 6.6 kilowatts, and the 2016 Chevy Volt is up to 3.6 kilowatts, which, GM says, is enough to recharge its 18.4 kWh battery overnight using a standard 120V home outlet.
Now it’s still a bit more complicated. The speed at which your car can accept the electricity is not the same at which the outlet and charger can deliver it. Many of you already know this if you have tried to charge an iPad with an iPhone charger. If you use an iPhone charger on an iPad it could take more than twice as long to charge it. The charger actually converts the AC current from the wall socket to DC current that the battery needs. The iPad charger does it at a greater rate. And so the same thing with the onboard charger that comes with most EV’s.
Then there are the charging cords and “The Brick” that come with the EV. The Ford, Leaf and Chevrolet come with 110v chargers that plug in to your standard 15 AMP wall socket. Using this charger can can take almost 18 hours to recharge a car that has about a 10% charge left.
If you are like many Nissan owners you probably sent your charger in to a company to have it upgraded to handle a 220v connection on a 30 AMP outlet like your dryer runs on. I did.
But it still doesn’t charge as fast as if you are plugged into a 40AMP dedicated outlet with a EVSE Charger made to handle the higher electrical load. What can take the 110 charger 18 hours can be done by the 30AMP charger is 9 hours and the 40AMP charger is 5 or less hours. As long as you have a 6.6kW converter on your car.
The 110 charger works for me 80% of the time. I actually didn’t use anything but that charger for the first 5 months I owned my car.
Now I use my 220v charger more often because I am using more miles per day. When I drive 70 or so miles a day it goes on the 220v. It also goes on that to get the lowest price electricity in the shortest amount of time.
I also have a house with my own garage. If you have to fill up at work or at public chargers you probably want the highest capacity charge connection available. There are DC chargers out there where if your car is capable you can charge your battery up to 80% in less than 30 minutes. The problem is these chargers are few and far between and many aren’t well maintained. I don’t think a person with a 24kWh battery is going to need one.
If you have a Tesla or large battery like most car makers are saying they will have in the future then you at least need the highest capacity charger and EVSE you can get your hands on.
Like airlines you need to choose a car that has the right range and battery capacity to do the route that you are going to use it on. Batteries are not just costly but heavy. Carrying around extra costs in range and dollars.
Most people will not charge on the road. They will charge at home, work or both. If you drive over 80 miles a day and can’t afford a Tesla the DC Quick Charge probably won’t be your answer. A car like a Volt will be.
A BEV with a 80 mile average range like most out there today are really urban commuter vehicles. They are not road trip cars and never will be Quick Charge or not. At highway speeds they get about 1 hour at full charge, not 80% charge. At 80% you’d be stopping every 40-45 minutes if there were chargers that close together. Then another 30 minutes filling up. Who has that kind of patience. On the other hand like a Tesla with about a 200 mile range at 80% and a 30 minute break every 3-4 hours on a road trip that makes sense.
If you live or work where you can’t charge at all don’t buy a BEV. If you can charge at home, work or both get the highest capacity converter on the car you want. Then if you need or occasionally need a relatively quick 5-9 hour charge get a 220v EVSE charging cord for when you need it.
If you want to drive BEV as often as possible but can only charge at 110v get a Plugin Hybrid like a Volt.
In the next year or two when the carmakers introduce 200 mile 40plus kWh batteries your going to not only want but need the largest capacity electrical connections you can get to take advantage of the large battery capacity they will have. What good is a 100 gallon tank if the pump only delivers 1 gallon per hour.
And speaking of only pumping one gallon per hour. That’s actually pretty good for electricity.
My Ford has a 96 eMPG. If it takes about 5 hours to fill my battery at the fastest charge rate that means at it’s fastest charge rate I’m only pumping 1 gallons worth of electricity in 5 hours. The gas version of my car would need about 3 gallons of gas to go the same distance.
That’s why I fill up every day instead of every 3 or 4 days. But since I’m using electricity and filling up at home my electricity is equal to $1 a gallon gas.
If you own a Tesla most of this advice goes out the door. You have a big battery with the onboard capacity to charge quickly. The only limitation is your home electrical system.
One of the great things about the web is it’s really easy to find media reports from years gone by. That is unless it was you doing something in the past you want to forget about or worse want to deny so you can get elected to public office.
In this case I’m talking about a couple of episodes of AutolineNetwork(Click here to watch it) on youtube. This one from 2012 is trying to explain why the Chevy Volt is such a big disappointment. One guy is from the Wall Street Journal, another from a Conservative Think Tank and another who was an engineer on the EV-1 project now turned auto journalist.
Two of the guys are totally dissing the Volt. The other two have driven it and say how much they love it. Their only real issue they have with it is the price.
The WSJ guy and the Think Tank Guy have nothing good to say because all they see are political reasons to not like it. They don’t believe that the government has any business giving rebates and subsidies to help it along. They don’t believe it would exist without CAFE rules or CARB regulations. And while I might agree with the latter the former is reasons are just plain selective amnesia.
How many things do we have today because the Government took an interest in something. The internet didn’t just pop up in the mind of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs. The Interstate Highway System wasn’t the brain child of Ford or GM. The Cellular Network and even the TV Broadcasting Networks were only built because the Government gave certain Companies assurances of exclusive license to build those networks.
We have seat belts and more crashworthy cars because of Government intervention or that hated word regulation. Something that all of the guest somehow like. Maybe it’s not popular anymore to say your against saving lives. Yet they still rail against CAFE standards and CARB rules. It’s not popular to tell people they should drive cars that get good gas milage. Why?
There is another episode with Csaba Csere, the former Editor-in-Chief of Car & Driver magazine and Jim Hall of 2953 Analytics. In this episode they once again talk about how great the Volt is and the Tesla. When you boil it down their only objection is price. Yet by listening to them you would think GM and Tesla had adopted a Marxist Ideology doomed to fail only to fall to the one true economy. The really high horsepower ICE engine that gets 20MPG instead of 12MPG.
Now fast forward to just a couple of months ago. On this episode they have on one of the main engineers of the Gen 2 Chevy Volt. They don’t have a single bad thing to say about the car. You would think GM hit a home run. It has yet to sell but now the car guys are coming around. I have no doubts if they invite back the WSJ guy his only dislike will be the $7500 tax credit.
I have said it once before. The EV is going to follow the path of the cellphone. And oddly enough the company that invented the EV-1 only to scrap it back when we as a Country also scrapped solar panels (bad move) will be the company that actually made the car that starts mass adoption of Electric powered vehicles. Not Nissan or Tesla. Especially not Ford.
While Nissan has sold the most EV’s of any car maker it is still a niche player. You really have to accept some major limitations to drive a Leaf. Think Apple Watch Sport.
Tesla proved that if you spend enough money and make something nice enough you can find enough buyers to spark interest. Think Apple Watch Edition.
The Gen 2 Volt on the other hand can get 50 miles on a charge. That covers 90% of most suburban Americans. The car gan go 400 miles on a tank of regular gas. That cover the other 10%. The only obstacle is the car is a Chevy. One body style. One company with a past of making bad decisions. The Volt is not one of them.
Ford may get caught sleeping on this one. While they have several Hybrids and a couple of plugins they don’t really seem to be taking the market that seriously.
Even if you don’t buy an EV or a Range Extended Hybrid like the Volt there is something you can do to reduce our dependence on oil.
It’s something else that has been around since the 1970’s but the auto press and automakers has taken this long to finally accept the reality and benefits. Synthetic Motor Oil. Go back over the years and you will find hundreds or articles on why synthetic oil was a waste or even detrimental to your cars health. Today with automakers having to get better gas milage and people owning cars longer and expecting more reliability from their cars those same automakers are putting synthetics in their higher priced cars at the factory.
They have finally been dragged into accepting reality. When you use synthetic motor oil your car gets better fuel economy, runs cooler, last longer and is actually cheaper since you can run it for up to a year in most cars.
Amsoil Signature Series Motor oil can be run for 25,000 miles or one year in many cars. To learn more about extended drain intervals and Amsoil click here.
I bought the 2015 Focus in March. After rebates, less than 20k out the door.
I have not needed a quick charger and there are very few anyway. At least in AZ near me. Of the two closest one is always broken. So if you are considering a Leaf over a Focus because the Leaf has the QC then you should ask yourself if it’s really important or just a want.
Only one person has asked me what it’s like driving an electric car. They saw it plugged in on my driveway. The Focus is so not noticeable as an EV. I am going to have it advertise my Amsoil synthetic oil business with a full graphics kit. I doubt anybody will notice the irony. A car that needs no oil advertising oil. But since the only way to use less oil with a normal car is use synthetic oil then why not. Amsoil can reduce you oil changes to once a year or every 25,000 miles.
I am glad I did not buy the Leaf. Not that the Leaf isn’t a nice car. It’s just far more expensive for what you get compared to the Focus.
Many of you who haven’t read all my posts may not know I decided to buy a Mazda 6 instead of a Nissan Leaf before I bought the Ford EV.. Which I love by the way. 30 MPG average and well worth the 25k OTD. Although I bought the Mazda first and the Ford second that 7k I saved not buying the Leaf paid for more than 1/3 of the Ford.
When I got my Mazda home i then started to notice most of my trips were 12 miles or less and very few were more than 65 miles per day. In the 2600 miles and 3 months I have driven the Focus there have only been 2 occasions where I chose the Mazda by necessity (round trip over 90 miles. And even on those 2 days I probably could have used the FFE had I wanted to stop and charge for a bit. Probably less than an hour. And I do like driving the Mazda. It a really nice car. The other day someone got in an asked if it was a Tesla. Really.
Today is actually the first day I needed to charge to get home. Half hour of Level 2 was all it took and I had 9 miles left when I got home. I got caught by surprise. I got called into work. It’s 22 miles from my house to work. I had 40 miles of range as I had used the car to do some things earlier in the day. About 45 miles worth.
There are chargers at work. I would charge overnight and have a full battery the next day when I got back. When I got to work they had already found another pilot to fly my flight so it didn’t delay waiting for me.
I saw two things that I had never seen in the time I have owned it. On the way to work when I had a range of 24 miles showing it told me I had reached a point where I should go back home (I don’t remember the exact words). And on the way home when I got to 10 miles left the battery symbol turned amber and I got a low charge message. That was about 4 miles from home.
When I got home I had 9 miles left. The power of regenerating brakes and taking a stretch of road where the speed limit was 45 and not 55-65 for about 6 miles.
I guess I didn’t have to spend the half hour charging to get home from the airport and they had Blink Chargers there. I guess I spent a dollar for insurance.
If there were an abundance of quick chargers around where you could drive anywhere like Tesla Superchargers and had the range to get from one to the next I might find quick charge necessary. They would also have to be competitively priced. $9 for a charge is excessive. You can drive a ICE car like my Mazda for 90 miles on gas for that.
I guess the Nissan would let you charge at their QC for free with their NCTC program but with only one of the two local dealers with a working charger and that one behind gates for 12 hours a day it is not really convenient. The Blink QC at the mall is the only other QC anywhere near me. I have never seen anyone using it. They should put a Level 2 There.
So far 2 thumbs up or 5 stars for the Ford Focus Electric.
Originally posted by a naysayer when debating the merits of a new Corvette to a new Tesla S.
“It’s great until you run out of charge on your way to grandma’s house carrying five people and lots of stuff.
Teslas are great second cars to run about town. But then again I reckon the Corvette would be a second car too.”
A reply from a verified Tesla owner.
Speak not of what you know not.
I have a plain vanilla Model S 85 kWh hour battery version, that I got in December 2014. It’s my only car; the daily driver. It has 95% of the cargo space of my wife’s Highlander SUV. It does 0-60 in about 5.0 seconds, the Tesla that is.
This is THE BEST car I’ve ever owned, and that includes a BMW 535, and a Saab 900T, both of which were very fun to drive.
I drive the Tesla (license plate [redacted]) regularly between Tucson and Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport (110 miles one way), Tucson and our place in Flagstaff (240 miles one way, Flagstaff and Phoenix Sky Harbor Airport (153 miles one way). Range and charging is never an issue, with the ability to charge easily at home, and then use Tesla Superchargers at either Casa Grande or Cordes Junction.
For example, the drive from Tucson to Flagstaff is 240 miles, but the real issue is the net 6000 elevation gain from the Phoenix area to Flagstaff. A Model S cannot make it non-stop in that direction even driving as economically possible. But I leave Tucson with 265 miles of rated range, and then drive the 160 miles at 80 MPH (that’s faster than max range speed) to the Supercharger at Cordes Junction. I get to Cordes with about 50 rated miles left. I do a 20 minute pee-break and sandwich stop. In that 20 minutes the Supercharger adds 120 miles of rated range to bring the rated range up to 175. The distance to Flagstaff is 85, and that much range lets me go up the big hill coming out of the Verde Valley at 80, and get to the Flagstaff place with 35 or so miles left.
Coming back from Flag to Tucson, I can make it non-stop at 65 MPH, but I usually drive 80, and then stop for a 10-15 pee break at the Casa Grande Supercharger. 10-15 minutes of fast charge adds enough range to let me drive the remaining 65 miles at 80 and get home with plenty of margin.
I’ve been to San Diego and Los Angeles, and with the Supercharger network (that’s -no cost- fast charging) the drive is a no-brainer.
Now, if you’re the kind of person who has to drive 4 hours at a stretch, 10 minute pee break then another 4 hours of driving, the Model S is not for you. But I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t mind a 20 minute stop every 200-220 miles or so.
This is a totally practical car for most people with average driving needs.
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